Saturday, October 17, 2009

Christianity and Religion Have Caused More Deaths Than Anything Else in History

Christianity and Religion Have Caused More Deaths Than Anything Else in History

Whenever I am evangelizing to non-Christians, one objection comes up that seems to be a barrier for them to hearing the Gospel. They seem to think that it’s hypocritical for Christians to talk about the love of Christ when Christians have done so much killing. Some of them even think that Christians are the most murderous of the religions. I figured I should do some research to actually have an answer in apologetics.

Yes, man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had "God with us" engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. Americans have said, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."

Jesus even tells us in John 16:2-3 that there will be some who, in their error, commit atrocities and murder in the name of God: "the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God." However, He informs us that these are not true believers: "And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me."

Jesus did tell His followers to love their enemies. So if a man kills another man in the name of Christianity (or any other religion), something obviously isn’t right. If WE can detect it, don’t you think that God can? Don’t forget that He will deal with that on Judgment Day.

So, we can all agree that killing in the name of religion isn’t a good thing. And now the obligatory, “Exactly, and Christians have killed more than any other religion.”

Au Contraire!

The main argument blaming those murderous Christians is based on the deaths of those in the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually added another situation that can be used as well.

Deaths Caused by Christians:

1562-1598 – French Wars of Religion – France – 4 million
1095-1291 – Crusades to the Holy Land – Middle East, Spain, Africa – 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict)
1184-c. 1860 – Various Christian Inquisitions – Europe – 17,500

We’ll round this up (for the sake of liberals) and say 6 million deaths caused by Christians. And that IS a bunch! 6 million is way too many!

Now, here is something that even shocked me! I had assumed that the tolls were fairly even.

Deaths caused by non-Christians:

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million
1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million
1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million
1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million
1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million
1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million
1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million
1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million
September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

The deaths caused by non-Christians – approximately 90 MILLION! And this is actually a conservative number.

In other words, even if you could attribute deaths to Christians, which we established at the beginning of this piece is not really the case, they are only responsible for 1/15 the deaths as non-Christians.

Don’t let this issue be one that keeps you from the salvation offered through Jesus Christ. Because the actual number of murderers in this world today comes closer to the whole population of 6 BILLION when you understand that God’s standard of murder is much, much higher!

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. – Matthew 5:21-22 Jesus from the Sermon on the Mount.

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. – 1 John 3:15

It’s not just the physical act of taking someone’s life that is murder. It’s the actions based on what is in the heart that God sees.

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur...” – Revelation 21:8

The justice we all deserve is hell. But God provided a way for us to not go to hell. Jesus, God as man in the flesh, lived a perfect life and was punished, tortured and hung on a cross for crimes He did not commit. He took the punishment upon Himself and paid the price for our sins so that we wouldn’t have to.

If you have not done so, repent (turn away from) your sins, ask forgiveness of God for those sins and be specific. Receive the gift that God gave through Christ on the Cross and trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” – John 3:16

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Woah, woah, woah! Nazis and Communists did not kill in the name or Atheism. They killed in the name of Communism (killing the people who did not make the quota/work hard enough). Nazism did not teach Atheism, and they killed Jews for being Jewish (not because they weren't Atheist)).
And your list of Wars do not include the wars in the Old Testament waged by "God" or any other mass deaths that aren't considered "wars" (like the witch trials, etc).
But I don't tend to single out Christianity when talking like this, I tend to lump them into two categories "Religious" and "Non-religious (or Atheist (but that's not proper terminology for this)). Therefore you can lump all of those other religious deaths together and throw out the deaths caused by Stalin (which you actually forgot when attempting to name "atheist caused deaths" which adds to your folly (and you can also put the Jewish Genocide on the religious side because they were killed because they were Jewish and therefore was caused by religion) and Pol Pot did not kill in the name of Atheism, but in the name of Communism and killed people who were literate, part of the government or just intelligent in general, but I don't know exactly how many were killed because they were Christian or Buddhist or Muslim (But I doubt you would care about the Buddhists or Muslims).
Thanks for reading this, Mr(s). Fundamentalist Christian.

Scott From South Cackalacky said...

The communist governments I am referring to did their best to eradicate any worship of anything other than the state. Therefore, when communists have killed via war or massacre or whatever, they kill as atheists.

Nazism transformed the Lutheran church into the state church, removed any Christian reference or accoutrement and replaced them with worship of the state and the cause of Nazism. The Jews were killed by Nazis to again remove any threat to Nazism.

The reason I didn’t include wars from the Old Testament is because I am showing the comparison of CHRISTIANS and others. There were no Christians in the Old Testament.

And since there were only 19 who were accused and executed for witchcraft in Salem, Mass. In 1692, I didn’t think that would make any difference.

And while I appreciate your point on some of the other issues, I stand by my writing. And I do actually care about Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. But my care is that as directed by God through the Great Commission – to bring the true knowledge of Jesus Christ as presented in the Holy Bible to them and the rest of the world. That doesn’t make me a fundamentalist. I am a biblical evangelist.

Thanks for your response.

Roderick_E said...

Great topic, please take a look at the info I have gathered.

http://thekingdomcome.com/religious_deaths

Scott From South Cackalacky said...

Roderick,

Excellent link to an excellent post. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

You didn't add the death toll from the 30 years war...it was a religious war.....a christian war....estimated on causing around 10 000 deaths...

Bob Frazier said...

If you add deaths under Stalin's regime you need to ad somewhere between 10 and 20 million non-Christian deaths.

WWII was not a religous war. Nazi's killed in the name of the state - not God. They killed Jews because they were a threat to the state not because of thier GOd.

Scott From South Cackalacky said...

Stalin caused more deaths than can be measured. He was pretty much an indescriminanat mass murderer. However, an atheistic state, like the one he ran depended on destroying any religion and its members that would be a threat to the worshipful reliance on the state.

And I disagree with you on Hitler. He pretty much turned himself into the "god" the german people worshipped. Yes, he did tout the Jews as a threat to the state. But the point is that he singled out members of a religion to blame and kill.

operations said...

Is there a reason you left out the Islam inspired genocides in Africa?

Scott From South Cackalacky said...

Operations,

There just isn't enough server space to record all of the NON CHRISTIAN instigated deaths in human history.

Anonymous said...

Scott for Cal.....i think you should do more reading...Anybody that believes your comments, must be dumber than a donkey? You start off by saying.."killed in the name of religion"...Is Atheism a religion? No it isnt, theres your first mistake...Therefore atheism falls out of the equation?....I think I should open my own blog, if unintellectual people like yourself can write on subjects??...Theyve just read up on, your second major mistake....Third mistake, you mention killings that have been written by the same people, who killed over the past, over 400 years. The so-called "white christians"....lets go through the list (and i want you to go to the places or speak to the people of these places, which was never written in history books)...examples like India, South Africa, Indonesia....there are millions of deaths which are never written about...You'll hear a common point "Convert to christianity or die, convert to christianity or your family will die....This is what was never written in the history books.....So how valid is your numbers above...The question is why?? Your mathematical knowledge is atrocious....How can you compare 1 group against a number of other groups, which includes Atheism. How stupid is that? Thats like saying Africa is the smallest continent, against the whole world...IDIOT...You need to compare each religion vs religion and take atheism out of the equation....I believe you need to read up more. The Old Testament - No Christians...Where do you come on that?....So who followed the Old Testament, hindus, muslims???...So those stories in the Old Testament are probably written about Hindus and Muslims I guess, hey?....Christianity existed during the Old Testmant, it is version of the Bible which documents Christianity...IDIOT!....ANd the fact that some of these people here are actually listening....i had no idea, dumb people can access the internet....

Scott From South Cackalacky said...

It warms my heart to have such a challenge from someone who wishes to remain anonymous.

Atheism is just as much a belief system that proffers points requiring faith just as much as any traditional religion does. Not to mention that the words atheism and atheist are rooted by the Greek word “atheos” which mean “without god,” which in tern has its root in the Greek word “theos” meaning “god.” Therefore, the logic is correct in claiming that the belief system of atheism is categorically identical to a belief system regarding a religion. Both sides are based on “God” – one believes there is and one believes there isn’t.

I did acknowledge and continue to do so that there are those who have acted in the name of Christ who have falsely represented Him for their own gain. And yes, that does include conquering civilizations and murdering innocents. However, I challenge anyone to provide proof where true missionaries or evangelists, who only wish to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, have physically harmed or even threatened death to anyone who would not convert to Christianity.

Anonymous, I can provide links and proof of the opposite, even though I doubt you’d believe them since you seem to be so angry that Christians exist, but can you provide links or proof of your claims? Please do.

As far as any reference to the Old Testament I have made, it is because Christians believe that the Old Testament is part of the whole story of Jesus Christ. And no, “Christians” didn’t officially exist until after Jesus’ death on the Cross. However The History and Law, The Wisdom, The Prophets etc. of the Old Testament are just as valid to Christians as the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament.

And since you decide to simply refer to me with a derogatory name and make your argument with superfluous ire, I will presume that you simply don’t know and don’t want to know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But if you do, please contact me. I promise I won’t threaten or harm you in anyway and will simply give you the information to let you make the decision to believe or not.

Praying for you, Anonymous!

Anonymous said...

Good Day,

I have to somewhat agree with anonymous. Apologies. But he/she does make valid points.

Atheism, we could sit whole day discussing whether its a religion or not. That makes each human beings beliefs different.

I am a black female and a Jehovahs witness, as I believe its the true form if Christianity. I have to agree with Anonymous about the number of non-christians killed over the past 500 years in the name of Christianity. The former "white christians" which he quotes murdered, raped, this was never taught to us. I personally have family who can provide you with many a evidence. The problem is we dont hear those things. The links that you mention, I bet anonymous can give you just as much links. The only way for you to believe this, is by getting out of your "shell" and actually contacting/speaking to them, for eg the native americans, and the number of them who were raped, murdered through the famous Christopher Columbus. None of that is reported? Eg2 The Phillipines killings by the Portuguese, and then instituting Catholicism as a national religion. Imagine that? I agree with anonymous on this, I see you mention "missionaries &evangelists", but the figures you put in your calculation doesnt include these numbers over the past 500 years?

Your basis for your calculation is somewhat skewed as he rightly says "Africa against the world". If you compare Africa against the total land on earth, its the smallest. But if you compare it against each individual continent, its the biggest. That is flaw to mention.

I have personally met many a christian brother/sister who spread the word that the Old Testament does refer to christianity. Its an argument which both sides will continuously do. You say its because "they didnt exist". The other would say based on the ancient Hebrew scripts many a christian has been mentioned in the documents related to the Old Testament. The bible has changed so much over the past hundred, thousand years. Is this argument valid, since we have differing view points? Can we say either is wrong? No, we cant.That would be superfluous.

I feel that anonymous seems more angry about the figures you used and excluded and the basis of your calculation....and he sounds like a stressed child! :)


Regards,

Sarah

Anonymous said...

Now that I have your attention, let me proceed. I have been away and have only now returned to allow myself to answer you.
As previously stated, your points are based on assumption and illogical approach.
Assumption 1: “such a challenge from someone who wishes to remain anonymous”. Did you ask me for a name?
Kindly refer to the title of your essay and the content thereof. You are attempting to disprove those who indicate Christianity is to blame for a large majority of religious killings.
Your calculation of this is therefore the essay itself. If your calculation is wrong, then your whole attempt to refute the claims is pointless.
My answers to you is not a matter of who did or didn’t. It’s a matter of how many!
Lets proceed...
“Atheism is just as much a belief system that proffers points requiring faith just....” Really?. We are so caught up in following religion we need to believe that Atheism is a religion. Kindly refer to atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm Who are you or anyone who does not follow and understand the “following”, call it a religion?
Many a greek/latin word in todays context is being proved limited. Can we base an understanding on the person/persons understanding, who/m invented it? Were he/she/they atheists?
Should we be discussing or debating this?
No. The correct question to ask is, did those groups (atheists) kill because the victims followed A RELIGION? Did the Athiests kill them because they followed religions....
Should the answer to this question be, yes, then only can they be included in your calculation
NEXT:
“Deaths caused by non-Christians” Unfortunately, this is wrong.
It should read “Deaths caused by non-Christians, in the name of their religion”. If it was NOT in the name of religion, then how can you include it in your equation?
An interesting point is hence given birth. How can you include, for example, The Nazis? If you say they were “Non-Christian” in this context, why did they only kill Jews. If they were non-Christian, why did they not kill Christians? A large number of Christians supported Hitler. If it was in the name of Atheism, Christians would also have suffered at the hands of Hitler. Because Jews were a threat to the State, Not because they were following A religion! Religion is the key word here (Based on the title of your essay and content), not a governmental system. Otherwise you would need to include Saddam Hussein, Mugabe and the many hundred dictators who have killed in the name of a governmental system (threats).
“Nazism transformed the Lutheran church into the state church, removed any Christian reference or accoutrement and replaced them with worship of the state and the cause of Nazism. The Jews were killed by Nazis to again remove any threat to Nazism.”
Unfortunately, Nazism cannot be classified with Atheism. Nazism is not the following “atheism”, if you wish to view Nazism as an atheist religion, then it’s a religion that was born with Hitler. Any Atheist would tell you that it’s not Atheism, but obviously we knew that, hey?
“The communist governments I am referring to did their best to eradicate any worship of anything other than the state. Therefore, when communists have killed via war or massacre or whatever, they kill as atheists”
According to you? You define a group killing for the state as atheists? State, Communist atheism is not a religion, it’s a governmental system.
Christianity is a religion, Islam is a religion, Hinduism is a religion, Judaism is a relgion....Atheism (with reference to my first comment as a following) is a religion....A governmental system is not a religion....


CONTINUED...

Anonymous said...

If we were to take out all your atheist governmental systems, which is not the Atheist religion (I use religion merely for your understanding) then we have a rather large problem with your calculation.
Further, you mention “the logic is correct in claiming that the belief system of atheism is categorically identical to a belief system regarding a religion. Both sides are based on “God” – one believes there is and one believes there isn’t.”....Now let me elaborate, as per your words, Atheism one believes there isn’t a God.
Now a God in religion is the higher power, the God, the almighty. Atheists do not have this, they do not believe in a higher power, all people are equal. So how do you equate “State” & “Communist” i.e killing for the state (The higher power) as atheism. Atheism can only be used if they killed because people followed a religion, of which there is only 1 form of atheism WHICH IS A RELIGION NOT A GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM.

This somehow puts a huge question mark against your claim that Atheism is a religion. How can a governmental system be a religion? This would mean that with every dictatorship, a new atheist religion was born? Come on, there is only 1 form of atheism.....which you have indicated is a religion? You would therefore need to put each dictatorship as a “religion” on its own if you wish to use it, Not as 1, cause they are not the “Atheist Religion”.

NEXT: Your numbers used. I find it amazing that nobody has knowledge of the wars, massacres that you speak of:

“Deaths caused by non-Christians:” (SHOULD INCLUDE In the name of religion)

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million THE KEY WORD IS REBELLION. THIS WAS NOT IN THE NAME OF RELIGION

1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million NO PROBLEM WITH THIS

1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million UNFORTUNATELY YOU ARE WRONG. THIS WAS A REBELLION AGAINST THE OPPRESSION OF MUSLIMS. ITS A REVOLUTION AGAINST DISCRIMINATION AND NOT IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. NOT TO GIVE TO MUCH INFO ON THIS, PLEASE REFER TO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthay_Rebellion AS A GUIDANCE. “The revolt was not religious in nature, since the Muslims were joined by non-Muslim Shan and Kakhyen and other hill tribes in the revolt.[6] A British officer testified that the Muslims did not rebel for religious reasons,”

1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million CANNOT BE INCLUDED AS THE COMMUNISTS KILLED FOR THE STATE, NOT A RELIGION

1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million CANNOT BE INCLUDED AS THE COMMUNISTS KILLED FOR THE STATE, NOT A RELIGION

1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million CANNOT BE INCLUDED AS THE COMMUNISTS KILLED FOR THE STATE, NOT A RELIGION


1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million ACCEPTABLE (But the number is debatable) SINCE THE PAKISTANIS FUNDED BY USA..... TARGETED HINDUS


1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million CANNOT BE INCLUDED AS THE COMMUNISTS KILLED FOR THE STATE, NOT A RELIGION

September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000 NOT IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. IN THE NAME OF USA’S ROLE OF DISCRIMINATION/KILLINGS OF MUSLIMS, FOR EG IN PALESTINE

THE RESULT IS THAT YOUR “DEATHS BY CHRISTIANS” IS IN FACT THE HIGHEST....

CONTINUED...

Anonymous said...

NEXT:

“Anonymous, I can provide links and proof of the opposite”
So you saying every single missionary has never commited a crime of this nature? Come On. How slow do you think we are.
It is rudimentary to even say something like this. Like with every religion you will always have someone or groups doing these things. We are Human Beings. We can’t deny it.
Sarah has summed up nicely the problem with the “No Christians in the Old testament” but I shall not go further with this......and this is minor against my above detail...
On another note....
“will presume that you simply don’t know and don’t want to know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But if you do, please contact me. I promise I won’t threaten or harm you in anyway and will simply give you the information to let you make the decision to believe or not.”

You once again assume I don’t know the truth of the Gospel and I am scared you will harm me?
I was a Christian, my father a Pastor. I know every single detail of the Christian religion and ALL its flaws.

And if you are not afraid of debating these flaws, I promise I won’t harm you...


Anonymous, A.K.A Richard

Anonymous said...

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm#RelCon
Deaths attributed to Religion are closer to 809 million, not 6. That's just shy of a billion.

Alan said...

Great, so christians and naxis are on equal footing. Good point.

Anonymous said...

None of you people get it, The problem isn't just Christianity nor is it just atheism, satanism or any other sole religion... The problem is religion, get rid of it and change the world. Think about it!

JustSomeSkank said...

Not trying to argue either way or the other but what are your sources?

Thought I might also point out that "famine" is in no way comparable to mass murder as it is neither intentional nor inherently violent.

Subtracting that 43 million from your 90 leaves 47 million.

I also believe you are leaving out the plethora of individuals slaughtered by colonizing Christians in Asia, Africa, and South/Middle America.

But, regardless of all of the aforementioned novelty, did you even briefly think to note that (excluding the Chinese famine and Nazi regime, as they were quite obviously Christian) leaves only 13 million with the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and Holodomor (also famine- but technically "man-made") in Ukraine?

But what about the number of casualties you list that have resulted from religion in general, not necessarily any specific belief? You have approximately 40 million deaths listed.

Maybe rather than the beast itself it is the nature of it...

Did you notice that Buddhism is not on your list? Buddhism is inherently without a "higher being" as anyone can essentially become a Buddha...

If there really is a "God" why must there be a book? If he or she is not speaking to you directly, why are you wasting your time listening to what might possibly be an incorrect interpretation.

If the internet proves anything at all, it proves that humans almost by default possess biases and faulty memories. Take that into consideration as you work toward your salvation because if I was the almighty I'd be mighty disappointed if you had listened to some moron who had never listened to me. :)

Anonymous said...

What a load of crap, misused statistics, and misquoted history topped off with a healthy dose of "Believe what I believe, then you'll live forever!"

A porno with a 12 year old girl and a donkey would be less offensive.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous destroyed you. Your argument sucked and he/she clearly and intelligently told you why. Go back to school!

Anonymous said...

"None of you people get it, The problem isn't just Christianity nor is it just atheism, satanism or any other sole religion... The problem is religion, get rid of it and change the world. Think about it!"

Killing in the name of religion, whether or not it is sanctioned by a god, is still a death due to religion.

Killing in the name of a fictitious book, no matter the book, is not justified. If one person killed in the name of Harry Potter, Christians would crucify him [(figuratively of course, they can't get away with literal crucifixions these days)...except in Texas]. The basis of the two are the same.

Anonymous said...

Damn Scott, your argument is almost as hilarious as the ones those bigots on Fox News use. Communism is NOT an atheist form of government. Atheists do NOT condone killing whatsoever. Communism accepted atheist because they believed religion was created by the rich to keep the poor in their place, not because they were true atheists but because it helped them with their Socialist agenda.
Hitler was Christian and frequently referred to himself as fighting for his Lord and Savior. Nazism can't possibly called atheist because it believed in Christian supremacy.
There is no genuine "Atheist for of government", the only existing one that would make sense is Republican Democracy simply because it is founded on equality of all citizens but even so there haven't been any major (openly) Atheist heads of state in any of those countries.
And lastly, I believe it's wrong for you to separate Christianity from the worlds other monotheistic religions or any other religion in general. Just look at us Atheists, we dislike all religions equally! And are you trying to imply Christianity is a superior religion by saying they have killed the least amount of people? Isn't there something in your scripture full of contradictions that you shouldn't kill a man ever? It doesn't even matter anyway, the amount of people killed in the name of Buddhism, Taoism, or Jainism could probably be counted on one hand.

Anonymous said...

Where does it say that you need to be an atheist to be a communist? I need to see that piece of information. Where do I find it?

Anonymous said...

i read all these comments about religion and atheists
but all these wars rebellions the people fighting believed in their own secular god
not every one in all these wars was a non believer
but why is it all these religions say fight with worsds not sword or love thy neighbour as they self and thou shall not kill
why do they say go to war for god and your country when god no matter which one says do not kill so to me all people who fight and are religious are the biggest hypocrites alive

Anonymous said...

This guy Scott is such an ignorant fool...are all christians such airheads??

bjohnsoneva said...

religion is a plague, and your argument Scott is a joke. Pull your head our of your arsehole and live life how its meant to be, free from the grimmest chains and shackles, and live by morals, ethics and principles, not selfish, controlling rules.

There is no divine, heaven or hell. Life your life to the full before it ends and you become fertilizer mate.

THANK GOD THERE ISN'T ONE EY!
Primitive bedtime stories that kill...you couldn't make it up...or could you? yeah..you can

Ben

amen...lol

Malcolm of Sydney Aus said...

Don't forget that a pope gave his blessing to fascism as well and wasn't until the true horrors of it came to light that they started to change their stance on it. And many a time during Mein Kampala Hitler not only says that he is a devout Catholic but also that it is in gods name that he explain the persecution of the Jews. Also like above I find you original list of deaths attributed to Christianity as being overly simple and badly researched. Due to Christians loving the saying of looking at something in context when explaining the atrocious behavior of their mystical figure look at it in this way, in context of the world at the time when God ordered the destruction of entire cultures and the enslavement of their children the world population was tiny in comparison to this century so what was the % of deaths in that day and age I think it would be staggering. But all in all your arguments are just fundamentally wrong. Also Stalin studied to be theist and a priest but could not go on due to monetary reasons, and in fact the inherent evils he saw in the church of his country partly led him to choosing communism so you could also say that Christianity led to those deaths. Looking forward to a response will keep an eye on the posts.

Anonymous said...

Several logical fallacies running amok here:

1. Just because someone is an atheist, that doesn't mean everything they do is in the name of atheism. Atheists have no religious doctrine to adhere to for "dealing with" theists. Theists, however, often have whole chapters, if not books, dedicated to "dealing with" atheists and other theists. (Islam's policy on apostates is particularly abhorrent)

Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened, but it truly has not happened on a grand and measurable scale.

2. Because a war's reasons have nothing to do with religion (the actual meaning of secular), it doesn't mean it was done in the name of atheism. The spark that set the fire of WWI was an assassination for political purposes.

3. Likewise, just because a person is religious, that doesn't mean it was done in the name of their religion. More often than not, however, religion actually is a cause for conflict and/or distinguishing factor between groups.

4. Just because a government mandates a religion as its official religion (state religion), that doesn't mean they expected people to worship the state, it means they expected people to worship the religion named as their state religion.

WWII Germany's state religion was a bizarre mix of Christianity (Hitler was a Roman Catholic), German mythology (Thule Society), and other occult beliefs.

Langelot said...

From Langelot...
I would like to add my humble bit.
It is disapointing to read some of the responses on this blog. First of all because of the intolerance and general lack of respect for each others opinions, secondly because of the general lack of knowledge/culture by so many who seem to think that they know enough of a subject to be able to post their opinions with such vitriol, not realizing that they are grossely misinformed and frankly ignorant both of the specifics and even the generalities, a quick look at wikipedia wouldn't hurt some.

Now to those who think that communists are not atheists - Carl Marx, generally considered the founder of communism wrote "Religion is the opium of the masses...". No, I guess you could consider yourself a communist and believe in God, but I would venture to say that you would be in the great minority. Unlike with some religions, there is no dogma as to what you have to believe to be a communist.

Atheists, on the other hand are avowed dis-beleivers in God, agnostics are not sure or simply dont know or don't believe in any specifics, and deists or believers simply believe in a God or even gods.

Communism is not a religion, it is a political philosophy that, among many other things, mostly having to do with class and economics, rejects any sort of belief in a supreme being.

Fascism (of which Nazism is a part of) is also a political ideology, an authoritarian nationalist one.

The Nazis did not just kill the Jews, they killed communists of all nationalities, including their own, because of their political beliefs, they killed Jews and Gypsies not because they were deemed a threat or because of their religion, but because they were deemed to be racially inferior, they also killed many non Jewish Poles (2.5 Million) and other slavs and were planning to use them as slave labor and eventually liquidate them much as they did with the Jews. The slavs are often blond and blue-eyed people. It is estimated that about 6 millions Jews died at the hands of the Nazis, and up to another 11 million non-Jews, including, undesirables (mentally-retarded, mentally-ill, physically disabled, homosexuals), political oponents (communists, partisans, and resistance fighters), and religious dissidents (including just 2,600 Catholic priests in the Dachau concentration camp alone).

The premise which the gentleman who created this blog is correct!!!

There is no doubt that most of the killing that has occured over the ages has not been done in the name of God, and not just the Christian God, any God. It is often a cop-out for people who simply dislike religion in general or Christianity specifically.

That abuses and great crimes were committed throughout the ages in the name of God, there can be no doubt. But often times, these wars used God as an excuse for other aims.

Langelot said...

From Langelot... Continued

The crusades had much less to do with religion than most people realize. The true aim of most, both Christians and Muslims, was mostly political and economic.
Muslims were fighting among themselves, before, during and after the crusades. The Christian kingdoms, even within the Holy land were at peace with many muslim neighbors while bickering among themselves.

The sad truth of the matter is that war and murder have been with us since Cain and Abel. If anything, Christianity is a religion of peace. More often than not, it has attempted to moderate the blood lust that seems to be inherent in humanity. That it has not always been followed by those who profess it..., that's another story.

Now regarding the racial talk that I read earlier. Sorry, I also disagree. Whites have warred against each other for ages. Asians, Blacks, East Indians and American Indians have done the same with themselves. Mass murder, enslavement, rape, pillage, all races have been guilty of it. Do you know that most Africans who were sold to the European slave traders were not captured off the coast by Europeans. Most were captured by African tribes who would go on raiding parties specifically to capture and sell slaves. Many of these, often times would go to the slaves markets where the middlemen were arabs (way to go Nation of Islam - great way to get back at the white man - reject the white man's religion and turn muslim!) The Arabs were the worst in terms of slave trading. No sorry, no one is perfect..., except maybe Christ

Finally, for those who didn't understand why they were'nt any Christians in the Old Testament...
The Christian Bible is a divided into two parts, the Old Testament, which had to do with the Jewish people before Christ and the New Testament, which has to do with the life of Christ and his teachings. There were no Christians during the times of the Old Testament, simply because Christ had not been born. Even during Christ's life and ministry, arguably, his followers could not be called Christians, they were simply Messianic Jews - only later, when gentiles (non-jews) became converts to Christ, can it be said that Christianity drifted away completely from Judaism.

Anyhow, its amazing what a good Catholic education and some Wikipedia can do for ya!

Pax Christi! Christ's Peace to all believers and non-believers alike. Just keep it light and respectful, even if you don't agree.

Anonymous said...

What about all the Native Americans who were killed by Catholic and Christian folk. Millions of natives died by Christian hands from 1492 to 1900. Over 100,000 Natives were killed in less than 10 yrs by Christians seeking bounty money during the California Gold Rush. I've seen the records myself.

Christian is an excuse to justify the means to an end that is not in this life. Today...in the US...Christians deny non-believers their rights to liberty every single day.

Deaths from Christianity = Millions and millions and millions.
Deaths from Cannabis = 0

Anonymous said...

WOW,WOW,WOW!
as someone mention on this blog before me you are not very inteligent and you know very little history!
When Cristobal Colon came to the Americas we have many documented cases that the Cristians came to kill in the name of thier God!
Many Taino Indiands were asked to choose between cristianity or Death , and many such as Hatuey choose Death! Christianity is the Cancer that came to America and responsible for the millions of millions of native American Death!
Remember , it was cristian invaders from the west that invaded the Americas , and it does not matter if they purposly murdered in the name of thier GOD the fact reamains that most people that came to the Americas from the West were Christians ,and as such it was thier cultural values which were highly influenced by thier religion that made them who they were! in other words if i consider my self a Christian and i have grown up with the Christian Morals , and all thier voodoo upbringing , and i decide to murder someone ,well it can be said that my upbringing had something to do with it!one would assume I am a Christian and I acted out a Murder!

Anonymous said...

lmao this article of full of shit, completley worthless. I'm surprised the author even admitted to the atrocities caused by religion, but he is completely wrong about "atheist" empires/nations killing people lmao.

Anonymous said...

Stalin was dependent on the Orthodox church during the war. Hitler did not persecute religious worship, so long as it was Catholic. This made Stalin's anti-religious views disadvantage him in the public eye. He attempted "Russification" in which he "married the Orthodox church." Somewhere between the few days when he had a mental breakdown when he heard Hitler had invaded, and his famous war-time rally speech, he decided that he'd use the Orthodox church as a tool, not a target.

Read Red Priests. The Soviet State could not and did not want to enforce a religion ban. Mostly what Stain was doing was appeasing the Bolshevik party be spouting non-religious things. There was no practicality in eliminating religious institutions. He honestly loved the architecture of the old churches, which is why he kept them around (as well as to use them as make-shift hospitals.)

Most of his kill count is because of the Kulak genocide, as well as a lot of the famines due to collectivization. There were even signs in Moscow that said "The eating of dead children is barbarism!"

Stalin grew up aspiring to become a priest. His upbringing was very religious. Was that the cause of the murders he did commit, or the idea to exile the Jews to Siberia?... Nope. Probably his abusive father and bouts of paranoid schizophrenia.

Xib said...

Anonymous, you're wrong. You're way off base. The number of people killed in the name of religion is far less than the number of people killed by governments. Completely secular endeavors have accounted for far more horror, atrocity, enslavement and murder. That IS the point. You wrote a bunch for no reason at all.

Kris said...

Uhm i am sure the author is aware of this but apparently not since he put Nazi (Hitler) under atheist but Hitler a catholic man and WELL LIKED by roman catholics and the Pope even called what he was doing to the Jews justice and right at the time. If anything Hitler killed BECAUSE of his christian beliefs.

Humanity said...

I am a person who is simply a curious academic. I do not believe in a god/gods, and I am not an atheist. I say that because I don't have a belief that there is or is not a god/gods. I simply do not care. I do however have a fascination with people who believe in god/gods and with religion itself. I am fascinated by people who, especially in this modern era, reject all the evidence we are so fortunate to have today of the truths of the universe. Humanity has finally triumphed over ignorance. We have unlocked the secrets of the previously mysterious and unknown. Some could say we have finally begun to explore the mind of god. What this could mean is that everything that primitive humanity could not explain or understand, they labeled as god or god's work. We now understand it and therefore god has become obsolete.

Whether these killings you mention in the past are religious or not, they occur in time and places where humanity has not achieved the knowledge of god/gods and risen above such violence. Even though death still resides on this planet, we now live in the least violent period it has ever seen. God is becoming less and less relevant and the world is becoming more and more safe and advanced. Eventually, and that could mean hundreds of years still, humanity will finally complete the growth and become a utopian, intelligent, whole community. God will be nowhere because the use for him/her has ended. When god is gone violence will be gone. God served a purpose once, and yes it was people who misused his name, but it was because people made him up. If the notion of god were true, he/she/they would have the omnipotent knowledge to not screw up and allow for such primitive humans to perform such atrocities in their name.

Whether or not god is directly the biggest killer of all time, death is certainly the symptom of god. I say god because I dont demonize religion. Religions without god (Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism) have cause no death upon this earth. God promotes ignorance, intolerance, and fear. These are all reasons for the killings of the past that were mentioned here.

Finally, Atheism is not a religion. Anyone who tries to label it as such either does not understand it, or is trying to belittle it so as to make it equal to their own religion. Atheism is the direct opposite of religion. I oppose god, not religion, therefore I am not in opposition to religion, therefore I am not atheist.

Anonymous said...

Not too knowledgeable on this subject (in that I don’t have a degree in history. I did history up until 2 years ago, a large part of my education focused on WWII. Let's suffice to say that the facts are still fairly fresh in my head).

I just wanted to point out that Hitler didn't say, 'Those Jewish people believe in God and should therefore be killed.'

He had all those Jewish people killed because he believed them to be an inferior race, a lesser evolved group of people. He killed the Jews to 'purify' the earth, not of their religion, but of their race. Therefore, using the reasoning (that quite a lot of people that have commented used), the holocaust was not caused by religion. You can’t just say, ‘Well, the Jews were targeted by Hitler and the Jews believe in Judaism therefore, it is Judaism’s and therefore religion’s fault that they died.’ Even if the Jews of the time didn’t believe in a god they would still have been sent off in those trains.

I’ll leave you with that,

Emily

P.S. Notice how I haven't mentioned or attacked atheism in this comment nor have I used any derogatory term to describe my previous commenters or Scott. I ask that the same courtesy be afforded to me.

Anonymous said...

Go back and redo your research, atheists do not punish or condemn,any religeon, we just don't believe in imaginary friends, we have moral values, and we do not kill in the name of anything, not a state, not a president, not a king etc, Starlin and Hitler were mad men, driven by greed and pasion for power, and yes, both catholic, atheism is all about peace, respect for others, nature, science etc, we are not satinists.sooooo redo, redo, redo, full stop, religeon kills more people than aids, because you believe you are better, higher, and protected by you faithn, if you are cured from cancer its not god who saves you, medical science does. Ok nuff said.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps we should not be counting the deaths in the name of this religion or that religion, or even the deaths caused by those who are against religion. I would rather count the deaths that have anything to do with religion. Beyond that, I would rather count the deaths that were entirely preventable. Know that the owners of this planet would rather have us fighting each other than fighting them. Religion is one of their most powerful tools in this effort.